Due to popular demand, I will explain exactly what Namco should have done to make this localization not be terrible! It’s really simple:
When in doubt, If It Ain’t Broke, Don’t Fix It.
If you don’t know what you’re doing, leave it the hell alone until you do. If you take this one adage to Kor, you can get far in life. Unfortunately, it doesn’t look like Namco got the message.
The prologue movie subtitles they revealed back in April were so bad that I figured some random Japanese or European staff member who didn’t know English very well did them really quick for a convention or somesuch. They even photoshopped one of the lines when they reused the footage during an E3 interview. Imagine my shock when those exact subtitles, including the photoshopped change, made it into the final release! It’s especially jarring when you see this scene sandwiched between two rather well-done, rhyming stanzas of the Sleeping Beauty fairy tale.
But here’s the part I want to focus on. While the subtitles were bad all throughout, the worst line by far was:
Japanese Translation: “I’ve found you.”
The phrase “like moths to the flame” has a very specific meaning. It suggests that Hisui and Kohaku are attracted to Incarose in some self-destructive, compelling way, like moths are attracted to a flame — either they wanted to meet her for some reason, or she set out bait of some sort that they fell for, and now they are in trouble due to their own actions. This is not the case. They are simply running away and she is simply chasing them. So this is a nonsensical choice of phrasing that is wholly inapplicable to the situation. It’s like if at the beginning of Star Wars: A New Hope, as the Imperial Star Destroyer is chasing the Rebel ship, Darth Vader were to intone, “Yes… we’ve captured the Rebel ship with the stolen blueprints… Like moths to the flame.” Just no. Even though they were in doubt (they either didn’t know the meaning of the English phrase or didn’t know the context of why Incarose is chasing them) and It Wasn’t Broke (nothing overtly wrong with “I’ve found you”), they failed to Don’t Fix It anyway, which is why it turned out so poorly.
The same thing applies to basically everything else that’s seriously wrong with the localization. This is going to be really long, so I’ll split the sections by character, and if you don’t care you can just Quick Jump to the end.
Kor Meteor
If Kor wasn’t originally obnoxious and annoying, don’t make him that! He’s supposed to be a naive country kid with a Kor of gold, not some annoying Californian high schooler. This is literally a huge theme of the plot and story of the game, and they even changed his name for that very reason, so changing that aspect of his character is really not a good idea (to say the least). Let’s just jump right in:
Japanese Translation: “Grampa, aren’t you always saying that in times like these, you’ve gotta just go all out and get it done, no matter the odds?”
The worst part is that this catchphrase comes up over and over throughout the game, and so he says this obnoxious take on the catchphrase over and over. Also, this is one of many lines to come where they simply cut some of the dialogue out because it doesn’t all fit into the textbox… since they’re not even trying to use the right half of the box. I’ve underlined the part that’s been cut out. And keep an eye on how much of the full textbox width is (not) used in all the screenshots to follow.
Japanese Translation: “In this tiny village, all that excites my Spiria”
“is the view of the majestic ocean. By: Shing.”
“… As if!”
Yes, a poet indeed. Way to pat yourself on the back for your magnum opus that will surely be passed down through the ages! And unlike the original, he doesn’t even show that he’s joking in the localized version. It sounds like he’s legitimately impressed with himself, which is doubly obnoxious when you consider how vapid his localized poem is.
But that isn’t even bad compared to this next one:
Japanese Translation: “Well, technically I did intend to do something…” [referring to his aborted mouth-to-mouth administration]
Oh, Kor, you cad, suggesting that she should have stayed unconscious so you could lock lips while she’s passed out. This is our naive, inherently nice hero with the heart of gold that Fights with His Heart. It’s particularly funny because Hisui later accuses him of exactly this, and he vehemently denies it. I guess he’s a liar in the localized version, too.
Japanese Translation: “Erm, that’s correct. I was just guiding Kohaku to where the other Soma is kept…”
“Hey, asshole! Who do you think you are, talking about my sister that way?”
There’s actually a bit of an excuse for this one, because they were trying to localize away the fact that Hisui got mad because of some Japanese culture stuff (Kor was just calling Kohaku by name without any honorifics or anything). It’s just that they did it really incompetently by changing the wrong line. Kor sounds like he’s trying to sound suspicious on purpose for no reason. They should have left Kor’s line alone because It Ain’t Broke and just changed Hisui’s line. Speaking of which, Hisui’s line doesn’t make any sense; it sounds as if they originally had Kor’s line be something else but forgot to change Hisui’s to match. Something like “Oh, I know all about what you were planning once you guided her there! I’m on to you, kid!” would have worked much better.
Now let’s watch him randomly be obnoxious to old friends of his Grampa, too!
Japanese Translation: “Y-Yeah… Old man, you knew my Grampa?”
This one’s another failed localization. The blond guy in the chair, the High Priest Labrodor Akerman, says he recognizes Kor’s Soma and asks if he’s related to Sydan. Kor says his line, then the Crystal Knight behind him yells at him for speaking to the High Priest with such a lack of decorum (calling him “old man”/”uncle”/”mister”). I guess they thought the Crystal Knight’s outburst wouldn’t make sense with a straight translation for Kor’s original line, so they had Kor randomly become obnoxious and refuse to answer someone who seems to have known his beloved Grampa, which is extremely out of character for him. The worst part is that his original line would have worked fine with the preceding and following lines staying exactly as they are, with the Crystal Knight being mad that he called the High Priest “old man”, so this is yet another case where they stupidly Fixed what Ain’t Broke.
Overall, the localization really does a good job of making Kor out to be dumb, annoying, and obnoxious when he’s supposed to be dumb, naive, and full of Heart. We’re not off to a great start, here.
Kohaku Hearts
If Kohaku didn’t originally talk like a haughty princess, don’t have her do that! There’s no reason for her to be rude and dismissive when the whole reason she’s there is to look for Sydan/Zektz and seek his help:
Japanese Translation: “You… know him? The Soma user, Sir Zektz?”
Nor for her to use a random stiff, formal speech pattern:
Japanese Translation: “And, when I was passed out, you really, really, REALLY didn’t do anything, right?”
“Rapscallion” also comes to mind. Where did she pick up this speech pattern, anyway? She sure as hell didn’t learn that from Hisui, nor from her villagers that all speak in some weird Scottish/Dwarvish accent. I guess maybe from Lithia, but if she doesn’t talk the same way Lithia talks in the Japanese version, why should she in English?
Hisui Hearts
If Hisui wasn’t originally a hyperviolent sociopath, don’t turn him into one! Because that’s just wrong.
Kor mentions they have to cut through the forest to get to the Soma Shrine, so…
Japanese Translation: “All right, then, lead us the hell over there.”
Kohaku scolds him and says Kor’s doing them a favor, so he should ask nicely:
Japanese Translation: “… Hurry up and lead us the hell over there… please.”
So a case of Hisui just being slightly rude turns into a case of him using overt threats of violence to try to get Kor to do him a favor, even after his dear sister reminds him that he’s doing them a favor. Way to accurately portray his characterization!
Then a couple minutes later, during a very tense scene:
Japanese Translation: “We can talk about the details later! For now, let’s just run!”
So, the witch that’s been chasing them showed up and blasted both Kohaku and Sydan. It’s really pretty bad; Sydan ends up dying of his wounds (zomg spoilers!) and Kohaku is totally out of it. They somehow just barely escaped with Sydan and Kohaku on their backs. And now Hisui is cracking stupid jokes? Like, I get that some people sometimes crack jokes to try to deal with the stress of the situation, but this joke really isn’t fitting. While admittedly hilarious, it’s not at all appropriate for the scene and makes Hisui look pretty nuts.
Later, Kor tries to fix Kohaku up because he’s the only one who can, something goes wrong, and Hisui is pissed. But then Kohaku finally wakes up for the first time since Incarose blasted her! And Hisui says this:
Japanese Translation: “Kohaku! You’re awake! What a relief! Your big brother was so worried!”
You can really hear the emotion in the voice acting. He’s a caring big brother who was so distraught over his little sister getting rekt, and now that she’s seemingly better he’s awash with relief. He really cares deeply about his little sister.
… Or maybe not so much, in the localization, since even this emotional moment has to include a threat of (fatal) physical harm to our protagonist. He might not have intended to follow through with it, but the point is that instead of thinking only about his sister in this moment, he’s also thinking about how he’s gonna kill that dumbass who dared to try to help her.
But then when he realizes something is wrong with her and asks Kor in a REALLY threatening voice:
Japanese Translation: “… You. I’m gonna ask you once more. What the f*** did you do to my sister?”
This would be one of the few times that the localization would be justified in making Hisui make violent threats, but the one they chose here is so comical that I have no idea what they were thinking. Could there possibly be a less fitting choice of threat? Why didn’t they just leave the threat implied (aka Don’t Fix It) if they couldn’t come up with one that wasn’t outright laughable?
Maybe the shock of realizing his sister is all messed up made Hisui a more friendly guy? Kor and Hisui discuss Incarose, and Kor promises he’ll get his revenge on her for both Grampa and Kohaku. Then Hisui chimes in with:
Japanese Translation: “Heh, is that right? Then if you can manage it, try to arrange it so you take each other out.”
“Do that, and you can get revenge for Kohaku in one fell swoop.”
In case you didn’t get the context, in the Japanese, he was half-joking that since Kor and Incarose both messed Kohaku up, they should both kill each other in order to properly avenge Kohaku. Note Kor’s change in body language as he realizes what Hisui is saying. In the localization, they changed it to Hisui bonding with Kor and agreeing that they should work together to take Incarose down. I honestly don’t know here if they simply wildly mistranslated this, or if they purposely changed it. The former would be incompetent (“aiuchi” is a very specific word that’s hard to misinterpret) and the latter would be utterly insane, seeing as how Hisui has been changed to being super aggressive all this time and now in this instance has suddenly been changed to being friendly when he actually IS supposed to be aggressive.
But I guess his newfound niceness is short-lived:
Japanese Translation: “Shut it! Who put you in charge?”
I can’t believe I have to explain why this is bad, but some people really didn’t get it, so I’m going to try to carefully explain here just how absolutely horrible this choice of translation is. Let us review. Kor’s grandfather, Sydan, just died about a day ago trying to save the three of them. Sydan is the respected hero guy that Kohaku was trying to find so that they could ask his help in fighting off the witch Incarose. Hisui clearly respected him, he is grateful that Sydan told them how Kohaku could be restored to normal, and he even helped Kor bury him after he died. He knows Kor is still feeling the loss. So to say “who died and made you boss” one day later is incredibly, stupendously, outrageously insensitive.
I have literally seen people argue that this line is okay because it’s not meant to be taken literally, it’s just a commonly used figure of speech, and Hisui wasn’t specifically referring to Sydan. Yes, thank you for your astute insights. I know that already. You’re still wrong. The fact is that the literal meaning of the line is still important to consider when it comes to things like reminding people of traumatic events that JUST HAPPENED RIGHT NOW. The fact that Sydan literally died and made Kor boss (he literally told him to take the Soma and help the girl) makes it inappropriate to casually remark, “who died and made you boss”, because it rudely brings the event to the forefront and disrespects both Sydan and Kor. The fact that Hisui flippantly makes such a remark makes him out to be pretty sociopathic, really. This sort of drastic change to the impact of a line is unacceptable in the localization process.
And in case you think it’s okay that Hisui says that because he’s still in the heat of anger after the whole Kohaku thing, that’s not a justification either. First, even if he was, that’s not something for the localization to add in on its own. They’re trying to bring you the Japanese scenario, in English, not write a new scenario. Second, he’s not, at least not in that moment, based on his other dialogue. Third, the localization makes him say the same thing later in the game:
Japanese Translation: “Hey, hold on! Man, what’s with him? Getting all wound up all of a sudden…”
Is he still so irrationally angry hours and hours of playtime later, after they’ve more or less made up? I hope that clarifies the issue with this line for everyone. If you still don’t understand why it’s a horrible line, please go up and read it again.
Finally, if you think he only makes violent threats to Kor, nope, seems like he does it to everyone:
Japanese Translation: “You really gave us the run-around, you punk! Now hurry the hell up and give Kohaku’s Spirune back!”
So, the somewhat overprotective big brother has turned into a guy who is excessively sociopathic and violent. This is our secondary protagonist, people. What a great characterization for a feel-good game about Fighting with Your Heart!
Beryl Benito
If Beryl didn’t originally mix up her words every other line, don’t have her do that!
Japanese Translation: “Go running back to Chen, you lapdogs! If you don’t…”
Originally, she occasionally mixed up words or idioms, and usually Kor or Hisui made fun of her for it when it happened. But that was relatively infrequent. Now, I guess they’ve decided her thing is to do this every other sentence, even with really simple phrases like “turns ugly”. Not gonna lie, it’s pretty cute when she does it with harder or less common words or phrases (“Lies! Falsehoods! Mendicity!”)… but when she messes up such simple words, you have to wonder if she doesn’t have a serious speech disability. That’s not an impression your localization should create, unless the original Japanese script created that same impression (it didn’t).
I could show like a billion other screens of lines where she didn’t originally have a speech problem in the Japanese but did in the localization, but once you’ve seen one, you’ve seen them all.
Miscellaneous
Also, don’t fail English-to-English translation and then fail to fix it in QA for 6 months!
Japanese Translation: “ITEM”, in English
In case you somehow need an explanation, in Tales games, with rare exceptions, you use items instantly and then have a cooldown timer before you are allowed to use another item. That meter there therefore does not indicate that you are “using” an item and “Using Item” is thus inaccurate and misleading. In itself, it’s not an enormous issue, but it speaks volumes about just how uninformed the localization staff were about the game they were localizing. Which you saw plenty of examples of above already; this one just sticks out as being an example where they could have literally left it as it was in Japanese without ANY translation at all and been fine, and yet they still screwed it up. AND, unlike most of the above examples, it’s an example of something that could have EASILY been caught in QA by basically anyone… yet it somehow made it through QA. Was there QA?
Also, if you’re going to randomly change half the characters’ names for basically no reason, at least pick less terrible names to change them to!
Japanese Name: “Chen Taren” (Chen, the Eminent)
“Ultra Marine”? Really? Shouldn’t you have at least made that one word, if you’re creating a reference to ultramarine? As it is, he sounds like he’s straight out of Call of Duty. Why change it, anyway? Surely changing one mineral reference to another isn’t really necessary? I guess it’s to be expected, since they went ahead and mostly unnecessarily changed Shing Meteoryte/Kor Meteor, Donna/Kardia, Zektz/Sydan, Écaille/Coral, Sango/Aqua, Obb/Aubert, Siddi/Cinnabar, Ann/Annaberg, Pearl/Perl (???), Scheela/Sapphire, and probably others, too. I would like to especially point out that Aqua’s original name, Sango, actually MEANS Coral, so it’s really ??? that they called Écaille (French for “scale”) that instead. I guess they thought they were being cute since Ultra Marine and Aqua (Marine?) are father and daughter, but just ugh. Does that mean his first name is actually “Ultra”? Seriously?
(Before you think I’m just hating every change they make, there are several name changes/translations that actually hit the mark: Lithia, Ines Lorenzen, Pyrox, Tourmaline, Cassiter, Alexandre, Smithson, and Amethyst. These are great; the problem is all those other ones.)
—
Conclusion
Most of these things I’m pointing out have one thing in common — they could have simply Not Fixed It because It Wasn’t Broke and it would have been fine. Instead, they went well out of their way to make a miserable trainwreck out of it. In other words, I’m not panning the localization for a lack of basic translation or writing ability — in fact, those are at a pretty good level! I’m panning it for piss-poor direction and heavy, completely unnecessary overzealous editing without any proper QA to balance it out that display a profound lack of sound judgment on the editor/director’s part. And no, this is not standard practice for a localization; all localizations change stuff and/or flub some translations, but this one stands out, at least among big-name JRPG titles, in terms of the sheer scope and staggering enormity of the lack of wisdom displayed in some of the changes. Any single one of these wouldn’t be that huge a deal by itself, but when there are so many such examples everywhere, the sum total isn’t pretty. It’s a shame, because except for the glaring errors every couple lines, it’s really otherwise decently-written.
You might have noticed that I haven’t even mentioned my favorite topic, Artes, yet. This is not because they didn’t have some incomprehensible Arte naming decisions that make Xillia 2’s debacle look like a masterpiece, but because unlike Xillia 2, there is so much wrong with the core localization that relatively minor details like Arte names that I was happy to spend an entire huge post discussing last time barely warrant a mention. If I spend my post nitpicking tiny details, like I did for Xillia and Xillia 2, that probably means all is mostly well. If I spend my post ranting about how it’s flawed in basically every way, you guys should probably be worried about the quality of this and future titles.
(Special thanks to Sirlionhart and WishingTikal for the video links!)
November 16, 2014 at 10:12 pm | Permalink
Now the waiting game for the true and superior Tales of Hearts translation experience begins. I hope it is soon.
November 16, 2014 at 11:28 pm | Permalink
What is worse for me is the lack of dub in this. If it was dubbed with those same lines I wouldn’t have cared much since it’s just strayed from the source as a whole. But with the japanese audio in the back the whole thing is too weird since with little knowledge in (spoken)japanese you can tell the difference on some of the dialogues, let alone people who actually knows it.
That’s why I think Namco have no hand on this localization, they simply give Gamespot the dev tools and ignored the whole thing.
One thing I like to mention too is how the fanbase is too acceptable with this kind of thing simply because of ~omg teilis gaem in english~, like if they don’t buy this they will never play a Tales game without moonrunes ever again.
November 17, 2014 at 4:22 am | Permalink
This is what I feel when I’m playing the game, maybe with English dub it won’t be noticeable but for people who know Japanese (or even a little) will be irked with this kinda of quality. Sadly to say I only play 1 hour of English version and abandoned it.
November 17, 2014 at 7:51 am | Permalink
Please help other projects that the officials don’t interested if you have spendable time, since likely your posts about Heart are just a waste of time if you think they will caught their attention. Show them that you can do it better on another Tales series.
November 17, 2014 at 3:59 pm | Permalink
Kaji, please, I beg you, we all beg you. Leave a year and half pass and then resume your translation. Both throughhim and you are equally pissed, we are pissed, and in January of 2016 nobody will care for this version anymore.
Maybe you are already planning to do this and prefer not to announce it in order to support the sales of the PSVita’s version. If that’s the case, you still have my support and best wishes.
November 17, 2014 at 4:53 pm | Permalink
Thanks for the article Kaji. It was a very interesting read about what a bad translation this game had.
November 17, 2014 at 5:37 pm | Permalink
You sound butthurt. The localization is perfectly fine. I’m sorry it doesn’t stand up to your glorious NIHON standards.
November 17, 2014 at 9:44 pm | Permalink
^ Thanks for the intelligent contribution, Bob. Your words have made all rethink their views.
November 18, 2014 at 2:24 pm | Permalink
Fascinating read. Game localization is something that actually really interests me. I’ve always wanted to get into the game industry, but I couldn’t pin down exactly what I wanted to do. I’m taking computer science at the moment since I’m sure a degree in that would be of use in the game development field, but I might wanna learn more about localization on the side. Maybe learn Japanese eventually too. Any tips you can give me to help me get started Kaji?
November 18, 2014 at 3:20 pm | Permalink
Take a Japanese course at university so you can at least get the basics down. If you somehow don’t already know a little bit of a second language (bilingual family, foreign language in high school, etc.), it’s extremely useful to learn one even if you never plan to actually use that language in the future. If that’s not an option then a book or learning software is decent too.
I would say it’s a relatively easy language to learn the basics of, since there isn’t any silly gendering and the conjugation isn’t too crazy. The hard part is that kanji is silly and you can’t draw as many parallels to English like you can if you’re learning another Romance language. If you already know an Eastern language then it should be easier since there are more parallels.
November 18, 2014 at 8:26 pm | Permalink
Ok, instead of complaining at your work, I will complain Bamco’s work..I mean, WTf is dis shiet?!…Looks like a novice just translated the whole game!!
Who the hell is in charge of its quality assurance?!… What a crappy “Remake”.
November 18, 2014 at 10:58 pm | Permalink
I can understand all of his points. I agree that the dialogue is punched up too much.
Though, I see the “Like moths to a flame” thing differently. To me, it sounds like Incarose is saying Kohak and Hisui were easy to find. They are obviously taking liberties with her speech, but I feel like the general point of the line was carried over.
November 19, 2014 at 5:20 am | Permalink
Comparison: Someone thinks he make a hilarious joke while other think it’s lame.
I could also say that your translation is too stiff that make the conversations emotionless. You can translate them words to words since Eastern languages aren’t that simple to translate. I have a little struggle to translate “ganbatte” to English since I don’t know what word would be perfect for it.
November 19, 2014 at 7:02 am | Permalink
You know, maybe they just were on time constraints and didn’t have time to do a good localization. Doesn’t justifie anything sooo…
November 19, 2014 at 7:18 am | Permalink
but language is flexible. It’s not really about what “word” fits. It’s more about how to convey a message. Like, take “gomen”. You’d say it’s a short-hand for “sorry” but there are times where you’d go with “Thank you” or “Excuse me” instead. It’s situational.
Also, I could see “moths to a flame” working if she was referring to herself (since you could infer that she’s quite “attracted” to them lol) but the context here feels like it implies the inverse… which doesn’t quite fit. The problem with it is simple. It’s a one-way attraction: moths attracted to a flame. They are trying to RUN from her.
It’s one of those things that sounds fine if you don’t put too much thought into it, which will be the case with a good portion of the player base.
(You could also simplify “I’ve found you” down to “Found you” as well… Would have sounded nice dubbed. Namco please.)
November 19, 2014 at 7:20 am | Permalink
the language comment was directed at the ellipses dude
sorry for my slow typing
November 19, 2014 at 1:45 pm | Permalink
In reply to “…”:
Yes, I purposely tried to make my translations as close to the original Japanese as possible while still conveying the original idea. This was so you have context of what the original line means with as little localized fluff to get in the way as possible, for the purposes of this article. For example, to convey the original idea, I had to localize Hisui’s “yagaru” in the “cutting through the forest” scene, so I made it “the hell”… not the most exciting localization, but it gets the point across.
I certainly have no problem with the dialogue being spiced up a little for the actual game, and we did spice it up slightly in the demo patches we released. ToHR has some good spice too, like Hisui’s “[We can] talk about the details later!” –> “No time for a play-by-play, kid!”. Conveys the same idea, just with more colorful language.
The problem is when you spice it up so much and with such little regard for the plot or characterization that it no longer conveys the original idea. At this point, it’s no longer a straight translation or a heavily localized translation, but a rewrite. Even then, if it’s competently done, it can still be a pretty good end product (see: Robotech). Unfortunately, I don’t think this qualifies as a competent rewrite, either. And even if it did, it’s certainly not what anyone expects, or what I want, out of a Tales localization.
November 19, 2014 at 3:24 pm | Permalink
I agree with you, Kaji. I started playing this yesterday and was wondering why Kohaku’s English lines were overly formal and princess-like when her voiced lines were more like a casual, girl-next-door type of romantic interest. Hisui’s jokes also seemed too violent and some of them were really oddly placed. It’s definitely not the worst localization I’ve seen, but it’s still pretty disappointing.
November 19, 2014 at 7:33 pm | Permalink
Seeing the title have “R” which could be “Reimagined”/”Remake”, I don’t think you can blame them changing the context though, they really “Reimagined” the personality of the characters.
You can also make Tales of Heart: Kaji Style and no one should tell you what to do.
November 19, 2014 at 10:10 pm | Permalink
@…
Reimagined or not it has nothing to do with the localization. ToHR script was already there with every line and character as they could be, they only needed to adapt them properly. Instead they made terrible characterizations and translation choices.
November 20, 2014 at 4:16 pm | Permalink
I guess they went for the R in R-Rated here.
Shing is an obnoxious asshole! Hisui is an obnoxious asshole! Kohaku is an obnoxious asshole! The translator is an obnoxious asshole! Everyone is an obnoxious asshole in this game!
November 20, 2014 at 8:27 pm | Permalink
I get why you and Thoughim originally respected the localization announcement of Hearts R and canceled/indefinitely put Hearts DS on hold, but honestly you’re paying Namco Bandai more respect then they clearly paid their western fan base with this garbage translation. I really hope someday down the line you guys go back and finish your Hearts DS translation, or someday get the potential to release a patch that fixes the localization of Hearts R for Vita because I really want to play Hearts with a good localization.
November 21, 2014 at 5:08 am | Permalink
The screenshots made me realize how ugly the game (and some characters) look in 3D…
And you can add me to the “hoping Kaji finishes his translation one day” club.
November 21, 2014 at 9:46 am | Permalink
OMG IT’S JUST A FIGURATIVE SPEECH YOU DON’T TAKE IT LITERALLY
IT’S FINE I USE IT EVERYDAY
November 22, 2014 at 1:06 pm | Permalink
Good sir, once again thanks for your hard work. I can see you are talented in translating. I love the art of the DS version, and I how you will continue your translation efforts, if even a menu and item translation.
November 22, 2014 at 10:51 pm | Permalink
I get what a lot of people saying about this being a localization and Kali always doing a direct translation, but this ain’t a localization its a full demonstration of incompetence, when localizing a product you alter several quotes in order to fit the culture of the language you’re translating, however you don’t alter character personalities and its one of the rules of localization to keep the words as close as possible to the voice actors acting.
November 23, 2014 at 10:56 am | Permalink
Now that the remake is out is the fan translation starting back up?
November 23, 2014 at 1:56 pm | Permalink
That is a really great post. It sums up a lot of the problems I have with recent localizations but never went through the effort of explaining to people with all the examples and screenshots you took. I’m an amateur translator (JLPT lv between N2 and N1) and I really feel that Japanese->English translations have gone awry in the last 10+ years.
A few years back a guy named Otaking on Youtube criticized the general anime fansubbing community on several points; one of them was that fansubbers hold themselves in excessively high regard, leading them to show off and spice up the final product too much.
I feel that professionnal localizers have been acting the same. Today it seems that no sentence must go untouched; if you’re an editor-proofreader, your must justify your paycheck by showing off your literate skills, and altering every sentence the translators have given to you. The reason for alterations is a quite valid one: make the sentences more *real*, to feel like the characters are real characters, that speak in real English.
But this is not what’s happening. I remember playing Final Fantasy 8 and not thinking of anything weird of the English there: my mother tongue is French but the FF8 English was the English I learned in school, the English I heard in TV shows and movies, and the English I would come to use at work while on the phone with American clients. Today the English in games and anime dubs is a false English, saturated with expressions and unneeded theatrical behavior. It’s true that someone who’s a beginner in English would not think of an expression like “like moth to a flame” to express a situation; that does not mean people who are fluent in English use these expressions ALL THE TIME.
Also, rapscallion…?
People want to play Tales Of games. The extra zeal localizers have been putting in every game lately (somehow always making characters more obnoxious, and never the other way around?) always ends up being a DVD extra that nobody wanted.
November 23, 2014 at 4:45 pm | Permalink
I don’t understand how different it would be, even if they got the translation perfectly right. I play Tales games for the gameplay. Not for the horrible story or characters. Which I guess is the reason you’re so upset with the localization.
If people want good storytelling and characters in their Jrpgs, play THESE games.
http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/loh/loh6-older.htm
November 23, 2014 at 6:54 pm | Permalink
Upvoted, fellow Trusekibro :^)
November 24, 2014 at 6:05 pm | Permalink
So I’ve played through most of the game and, considering I knew next to nothing about Hearts or the characters, I rather enjoyed it. I mean, I’ll admit that the lack of a dub did bug me a bit, and I totally get what you’re saying about the buggered up translation. Regardless, I don’t regret picking it up or contributing to the possibility of future localizations. Honestly, I think Zestiria’s localization will be a lot better because it isn’t a Vita game. Also, while I get what you were saying about Hisui, I did find myself cracking up a lot at his brand of slap-stick humor (particularly the “your face” threats.) I know it may not be how he originally was, but it was still quite humorous.
That all said, I would definitely like to play through the entire DS version of the game with your translation one day. If you can justifiably rip on the localization this much, I can’t wait to see you blow it out of the water
November 25, 2014 at 9:15 am | Permalink
And I’m here still wanting to see you one-up that R with the DS translation. Let’s hope a quality translation topples better graphics and extra content, ’cause really I’m not getting a Vita only to play this trainwreck 😡
November 26, 2014 at 8:27 pm | Permalink
You guys shouldn’t get your hopes up for a Hearts translation on a near future, Kaji’s translation was not even halfway done despite the time he was working on it. And thoughhim hands are full with NariDunX/ToPX and ToDDC.
November 26, 2014 at 10:50 pm | Permalink
Hearts DS is ded p much :-\
November 27, 2014 at 7:11 pm | Permalink
I wonder if Kaji would be willing to release the list of artes he’s translated so that we can compare his names with those of the official localization.
November 27, 2014 at 10:35 pm | Permalink
There’s little point. If you want me to write a “A Crash Korse in How Not to Name Artes” followup post, that’s pointless too, because you could just copy and paste pretty much the entire Arte list and call it a day.
November 27, 2014 at 11:31 pm | Permalink
Anyone wrote ” A Crash Korse in How Not to be Detected by Official when doing Translation Project” post? Oh and while Kaji’s here, please just one word from you, Continue or not? I decided to play it on japanese if not, so if you have menu patch or can make the demo patch continuable, it would be appreciated.
November 28, 2014 at 10:07 am | Permalink
He said since the announcement he won’t make a menu patch dude, it’s also pointless.
Also no Artes list because TempestTales, no one wants to deal with him/her.
December 5, 2014 at 6:12 am | Permalink
Solar Wind=/=Heaven’s Wrath. That’s annoying, they sound nothing alike. Kaiji man I beg you please please finish the translation. This game is soooo amazing but it’s sloppy. The artes, the characterization, even the OST from the DS is arguably better. Makes me sad how much wasted potential Hearts is.
December 8, 2014 at 1:55 am | Permalink
There’s already an arte called Heaven’s Wrath though. And Solar Wind does make a bit of sense in the context that Kor is striking his enemy high up into the air and his attacks are fast like the wind.
December 8, 2014 at 3:59 am | Permalink
That would be a much better explanation for the name than the actual explanation.
Not that Heaven’s Wrath (a name I made up years ago because I couldn’t come up with anything better at the time) is that great either. The kanji are trying to say something along the lines of “Flying-Hotblooded/Energetic-Divine-Afterimage-Slash”. The metaphorical use of “wind” is actually pretty good, but I’m going to hazard a guess that that was a total accident on their part. The effect is ruined anyway by the reference to an actual astronomical phenomenon.
December 8, 2014 at 11:42 am | Permalink
That’s why I think artes translations should be approached more with the animation in mind than the actual translation of the kanjis or a mix of both, thought there are exceptions.
There are two (really old)artes that I’ll never agree with the translations they give them, first because they sound weird and second because it makes less sense when I translate then to my native language:
Demon Fang and Tiger Blade
Demon Fang for me is just the translation, it should be Demon Sword, the translation IS Demon Sword and they translated the fist version Demon Fist, it would make more sense as Demon Fang in place of Demon Dog but they failed to realize this.
Tiger Blade doesn’t make sense and it’s the translation I’ll never adapt to, it should be something like Tiger Strike to adapt more from the animation instead of translating it, every time I hear this I remember Rei from BoFIII.
Of course there are a lot more, like half of Asbel artes( lol at Wolfwind Fang and Icedragon Flurry) and of course Xillia/2.
December 8, 2014 at 1:31 pm | Permalink
No, it should really try to stick to the kanji. The problem with (re)naming Artes after the animation is that if a future game reuses the same name but goes with a different animation, it screws up the whole system. We already saw an example of this with Sazanka. It was originally the surprisingly accurately translated Triple Blossom in Eternia, then renamed Triple Kick in Symphonia (because I guess Regal is too manly to have a move named after flowers), then renamed again to Cerberus Strike in Vesperia (because Yuri punches rather than kicking). Another more obtuse example is Shuusou Raizan, which got stuck with the dumb Lightning Tiger Blade name because they went “welp, it’s just Lightning Blade + Tiger Blade”, which only applies to Symphonia, instead of naming it according to the kanji. There are probably other examples that I can’t think of right now.
Now, if you’re not totally sure what to name it and want to use the animation to guide your choice of translation of the kanji, that’s totally legit. But it should be some sort of translation of the kanji. It’s also not terrible for Artes that are unlikely to be used again, provided you can come up with at least a sort-of decent replacement name (e.g. Kor’s Seiei Reppa/Solar Parabola).
You’re right about Demon Fang and Tiger Blade, because they really ought to be Demon Blade and Tiger Fang(s). But eh, whatever.
December 8, 2014 at 3:48 pm | Permalink
Oh yeah you are absolutely right, I forgot about the reuse of stuff and made the post based on the current localization overeall. Still there are some things which is hard to come which a kanji translation.
December 9, 2014 at 8:58 am | Permalink
Tales of hearts r is better than ds version because story is fix everything beaches chalcedony post to be playable character in the ds they removed it check where before u go to lithia hometown chalcedony injirued incanrose eyes because of incanrose killed chalcedony. Ds version was rushed English will be hard Nintendo never realase tales of hearts will Japanese voices beocause of ratings and Nintendo stuff up lots of games like dragon quest and tales of the abyss. Check tales of the abyss on 3ds transtalion is just copy paste from ps2 didn’t put skit voices on English it’s ripp off I wish tales of the abyss on ps3 hd remaster with Japanese voice. Sony better than Nintendo because let you get tales English all of them because of Sony like tales of graces f beacuse of Sony they help bandi namco get more tales games every times. Better than Nintendo.
December 30, 2014 at 3:50 am | Permalink
Shall we be getting a snowy white progress bar with sparkles for the new year?
– Kat
February 19, 2015 at 7:27 am | Permalink
And my favourite line to pick on is one of Shing’s victory quotes.
It pretty neatly translates to “I can’t afford to hold back!”
What did they translate it to? “I don’t know how to hold back!”
May 12, 2015 at 4:35 am | Permalink
[…] invito a que leáis el artículo con tiempo, aún si habéis jugado al juego o no (eso sí, está en […]
June 20, 2015 at 7:32 am | Permalink
[…] that the localization was in terrible shape. I and others called Bamco out on it and they fixed literally nothing in the following months leading up to the release. There are only 4 months left until the Zestiria […]
August 6, 2015 at 1:39 am | Permalink
If there’s one thing we can count our blessings for, it’s that at least we got the Japanese dub. That way, someone with at least a passing familiarity with Japanese can infer the simple, day to day conversations (because heaven help you if you rely on these subtitles to make sense of the characters) and simultaneously have a fallback option for when the plot-related big words come in.